I'm curious about your estimates for moving the Silver Beaver. I can get a Rule 11 rate to reposition a freight car for that kind of distance at $2k on a bad day. For a car that can move on its own wheels, what drives up the price so much? I'm sure it's no accident, but please educate us.
#1 Taylor Rich on 2015-03-06 19:02
Hello Rich As I said in the blog it is just an estimate. On a good day a rate might be more. If you would like to donate $2K to help move it the museum would be very grateful. There are always unforeseen costs that crop up and the estimate will cover it. Being a member of Irm you realize this. Thanks for your interest. Roger
#1.1 Roger Kramer on 2015-03-08 14:44
It's more than 50 years old and has special handling considerations.
#1.2 Brian L. on 2015-03-08 18:18
Taylor, I am very glat to hear of progress on this very interesting acquission. I see a small door in addition to the large baggage door. Was the car also used to carry mail at some time? Ted Miles IRM Member
#1.3 Ted Miles on 2015-03-10 12:16
Hello Ted, Our info from CB&Q Hist Society confirms that the "bag" was once an RPO and was converted to a baggage car. Please help the cause by sending a few $ to transport it "home" It sure would look nice w the 3007, 1923! Roger
#1.3.1 Roger Kramer on 2015-03-12 10:57
Ted, The car started life as a near copy of CB&Q 1923; our operational RPO Baggage car. I have not managed to find the number of the car it was converted.
#1.3.2 Brian L. on 2015-03-12 11:20
Red Flag: On 3/12, Brian said: "The car started life as a near copy of CB&Q 1923; our operational RPO Baggage car." Since we already have one of these cars, is there really a need for a second one? What purpose will be served by having a second one?
# Russ Prince on 2015-04-06 12:32
Hello Russ Yes, the baggage 1309 was once an RPO but the "Q" altered it into a full baggage, See pictures. Irm does not have a hvy wt car of this type that we can use in our trains. All class one's had baggage cars in their passenger consists. We want to use it in our steam train along w/ the 1923. Some small parts will be also stored inside . Roger
# Roger Kramer on 2015-04-07 21:09
Hello Roger, and thanks for your reply last week. I am curious about the desire to bring 1309 to the museum. I understand the idea that it is prototypical to have a full baggage car on the steam passenger train. But from a practical point of view, I don't see that it adds much more than weight to the train with the baggage/RPO car. After all, we limit passengers to the coaches. The only time I saw a passenger in the baggage/RPO was when we brought a person in a wheel chair aboard, something we can do now. On the Duluth steam passenger train, the full baggage car sells pizza and soft drinks. Are we going to actually do something different with 1309 that we can't already do with with current equipment? If not, I don't understand the need for it. Help a poor 'ol Minnesotan out! Thanks!
# Russ Prince on 2015-04-15 21:35
Hello Russ The acquisition, in my view, is important in a number of aspects. First, we want to demonstrate and educate the public on RR use of a baggage cars and its relevance of moving cargo around the country. RPO's and Baggage cars were used in all cities up until late sixties. Lastly, consider the IRM consist Of CBQ equipment 3007,1923, and 1309, Dover Strait DMIR84 L&N2726 IC 2804 and Inglehome. That could have been the Ak-Sar-Ben. O,yes, you will not see pizza and cold drinks sold in IRM baggage cars. That is what diners are for. Roger
# Roger Kramer on 2015-04-16 08:35
From the operations side, 1309 would be a welcome addition for appearances behind 1630 and give us more weight and therefore more brakes. When 1630 is running, it is beneficial for train-handling to have a heavier train. As Roger also mentions, it will provide us with some storage for small parts as well as storage for some of our collection of trunks and luggage.
# Brian L. on 2015-04-16 22:08
Couldn't you just add another car for extra brakes? Also then shouldn't the RPO car always be out for a more authentic train?
# Robert Penn on 2015-04-17 17:33
Adding 1309 to the mix gives us more flexibility in building consists and allows us to reduce wear on our service cars. 1309 also has 6 axles and a higher weight than most of the service coaches. Greater weight, greater brakes. When we speak of authentic consists, we typically are referring to special events.
# Brian L. on 2015-04-19 20:34
The key is that it STARTED life as an RPO-baggage. It is now a full baggage car, unlike 1923 which still has a 30' RPO compartment. We do not have a full CB&Q heavyweight baggage in the collection at Union, at least until 1309 arrives.
# Brian L. on 2015-04-08 11:04
Just because there isn't a "full heavyweight CB&Q baggage car" in the collection, that doesn't necessarily mean we need one. Not aware if we already have one, but a cafe/lounge car would fill a gap if we don't.
# Jeron G. on 2015-04-12 20:53
We have a few cars that would be considered cafe/lounge cars, ATSF lounge dorm, IC Grill-Lounge, and the Dover Strait lounge-buffet-sleeper. We do not have a full length heavyweight baggage car in the coach department collection other than the 1309 which has yet to arrive, furthermore, we already own the 1309.
# Brian L. on 2015-04-13 00:23
I see. I wasn't sure if the CNW 8784 or the Havelock car were considered heavyweight baggage cars. I've always liked the look of the 8784. Too bad it's buried in Barn 11.
# Jeron G. on 2015-04-13 21:43
To be purely technical, the N&W baggage (converted Pullman) used by the used bookstore and C&NW 8728 are heavyweights, however, they are used by other parts of the museum, and are not really a part of the collection of the coach department. Furthermore, we own the 1309 already, and of the three, 1309 is the most likely to be made operational. C&NW 8784 is a horse-express car, the CB&Q Havelock is a smoothside lightweight.
# Brian L. on 2015-04-15 18:04
I meant to say the CNW 8609 instead of the 8784, but yeah that's an RPO/Bag.
# Jeron G. on 2015-04-15 21:11
After last weeks severe weather that occured not too far from the IRM's campus I began to wonder about how, and if the museum's collection is covered by insurance. I'm sure your insurance covers the buildings and liability issues that might arise but how about a E5/Zepher set if its damaged or destroyed by a tornado. Just wondering.......
#1.4 MRZ on 2015-04-18 09:26
some of you might agree with me, but a controversy i see the with the streamliners, excluding the zephyr, is that a majority of the streamline cars in the collection are either Diners, Sleepers, or Baggage cars. so a few lightweight coach cars would fill the void.
#2 Raphael on 2015-03-09 16:52
Post-war coaches are in greater demand by excursion operators (261, 765, etc.) and tourist lines, so not many are left to museums that don't go out on the mainline.
#2.1 David S on 2015-03-12 10:05
If we were to go after any lightweight coaches, they would either be junk or cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Postwar lightweights are a very valuable car if they are in any semblance of decent condition.
#2.1.1 Brian L. on 2015-03-12 11:04
Just load up on Slumbercoaches!
# ER on 2015-03-18 19:05
Thought you might find it interesting. Mid-Continent seems to be auctioning off a lot of equipment and artifacts. Check the list.
#3 Joe Zdenek on 2015-03-11 13:43
Thanks Joe, Yes we are aware and will be interested in the outcome. Roger
#3.1 Roger Kramer on 2015-03-12 10:53
Speaking of Silver Pony, what's happening with it?
#4 David S on 2015-03-12 09:59
Hi Dave, Regarding the Silver Pony there are plans for future installation of some windows but nothing scheduled for the next six months. We will be getting ready for the season, inspections, brake tests etc. Some of the crew will be continuing on already started projects. Some will be working on the hvy wt fleet for this years events. Roger
#4.1 Roger Kramer on 2015-03-12 10:50
Not a whole lot. Operational cars take priority obviously. Hopefully we'll have the materials we need to get it on display within a year or two.
#4.2 Brian L. on 2015-03-12 11:11
On display? No plans for it to ever become operational? I know it wouldn't exactly "fit in" with the heavyweights, but I bet it would be very popular running down the mainline, especially behind a steam engine.
#4.2.1 David S on 2015-03-17 15:39
Hello David S We would love to have the Silver Pony in operation. At this time the coach dept does not have enough volunteers and $ to complete the all upgrades needed on the "Pony". We will keep everyone updated on our progress. If you would like to help on the "Pony" please visit with the coach dept volunteers in barn 3. Thanks Roger
# Roger Kramer on 2015-03-17 19:04
Display first, operation later. It needs to be watertight to be on display with the streamliners in yard 5, then we can start working on putting the brakes together, fixing the buffer on the vestibule end, replacing missing parts, figuring out how to provide power to the car, etc. There is a lot of work left before the car can be operated; but once the car is watertight it can go on display and be less "out of sight, out of mind". We need parts, volunteers, and money. Ideally, as a sealed window car, we would have the air conditioning functional, which means we need more than just shore power capability. We need numerous parts that the GCRY kept when we got the car. The damage that kept GCRY from using the car must also be fixed.
# Brian L. on 2015-03-17 21:34
It looks like IRM DOES have about three streamliner era coaches. Though two are modernized heavyweights, and one is more of a luxury chair car. Nothing like a regular Budd coach, but those are in demand and therefore they are expensive. Still, IRM has a decent "streamliner" fleet besides just the stainless clad cars.
#5 Chris on 2015-03-13 02:06
We have 3 "modernized" Heavyweights, IC 2804, GTW 5316, and UP 501. UP 501 is used for the Terror on the Railroad event, GTW 5316 needs some major body work, and IC 2804 needs minor repairs. IRM has two cars that would be reasonably considered lightweight coaches: Dome-Coach D&RGW Silver Pony, and Grill-Coach IC 3345. Both of those cars need restoration. We have no true lightweight coaches that are not also something else. For practicality, there are big differences between "modernized" heavyweights and true lightweights.
#5.1 Brian L. on 2015-03-15 13:18
Was the CB&Q 1309 every transported to IRM?I’ve been reading old issues of Rail&Wire and the car was mentioned several times.
#6 J Blustein on 2021-10-13 13:33
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